Our Industry Innovators series interviews senior leaders across industrial technology industries, exploring the latest trends, upcoming technologies and pressing hot topics that are shaping the future.

We help business leaders in the warehouse automation and intralogistics markets grow their teams and Warehouse Automation Consultant James Disney recently had the privilege of speaking to CEO and Co-Founder of cellumation, Hendrik Thamer. Hendrik discusses various aspects of the industry and shares his insights and experience. Watch the full interview here or read the full transcript below:

 

 

 

Today I’ve got the pleasure of speaking with Hendrik Thamer, Co-Founder and CEO of cellumation. Hendrik, can you give us a brief overview of yourself and explain your experience in automation?

Thank you, James for having me. My name is Hendrik. I’m 43 years old. I’m CEO and Co-Founder of cellumation. My background or my journey began as I studied computer science, then I majored Ph.D. in AI and logistics, and together with the two Co-Founders from our university, we developed a unique conveying technology which we, starting from 2017, have brought now to, not every country in the world, but many countries in the world. And now it’s the scaling faze, the startup faze is over, and now we are scaling. And we have some different applications, different products and are entering the logistics.

 

So where did your passion for the industry come from? What made you want to be a part of intralogistics specifically?

Well, that’s a good question, because it was not my first career goal. My goal after the studies was to make a Ph.D. and there was still opportunity to do it in the Logistics Automation Institute. And so I started there. My parents were very scared and said, “What do you want to do with logistics? Do we want to drive a truck or something different?” And so I started there, and had the benefit to investigate different applications. The first project was a robot for container loading, then intelligent forklifts. And one day my Co-Founder Claudio invented this conveying technology, and we said, without knowing what it means, “Oh, that’s a good idea. Let’s make a business out of that.” And then we started.

I would say my passion has come along the way. At first I hardly knew anything about intralogistics, but now I love it and, it sounds so easy, you are bringing a parcel from A to B or sorting parcels, but when you go into the details, you see the real complexity. And that’s very fascinating. And I think it’s an area where many people underestimate the effort you have to do to make a reliable process automation or process improvement.

 

So what changes have you seen in the industry in your experience so far?

I think as I started and this was 2009, intralogistics was only a cost factor and source. And now I think it’s accepted as a field in the process and the business with a huge economic potential, especially to the labor shortage which has increased over the years dramatically. And therefore everybody is very open to find automation solutions. And to be honest, many processes and the intralogistics are also very hard for humans to do, very repetitive. And so I think it’s a it’s a good time to bring robotics and AI to the field. In my understanding now, the last two or three years, there’s a huge increase in integrating this kind of solution. And that makes it very exciting for companies like us, but also for people who want to work in the area.

 

So when it comes to intralogistics in the next 5 to 10 years, do you think that AI and robotics are going to play the largest role in this?

I think so, yes, definitely. And a larger role I don’t think that humans will completely disappear from the warehouse, it’s not possible. And it’s also not good because the businesses are performed through humans, also working together as humans. And that’s something that’s emotional intelligence, I think. And I hope AI will not adapt this one. And therefore I think that humans will not disappear. But we will get much more automation solutions, connected systems, intelligent platforms to connect all the systems which, I think in five, ten years it would be a huge increase up to now and we are very excited to be part of that.

 

Now, when it comes to yourself, what do you think are the biggest hurdles that you’ve faced in getting to where you are either personally or with the founding of cellumation, and how did you overcome these?

Now from the company level, it was very good that we didn’t know what we didn’t know, because the way to build an automation start up in a traditional
industry is not so easy. There’s many, many hurdles. Especially events like the pandemic, shortage of electrical components. It was very, very hard for us as we started the company and the products are ready then the pandemic, yeah, cut our sales process. We have had of course some virtual conferences, but nobody buys the machine seeing it online. And this was very, very hard.

And from the personal side, it’s a huge step from a researcher at an institute or university to a CEO of an industry company. And so this was a very, very big step. Of course, the professional skills you need for for doing the business, but also especially the leadership skills. It’s totally different when you’re three people, all Founders. And now we have 60 people, and I have to grow every time with the company. That’s a huge benefit to have this opportunity, but it’s also a challenge because you have to do it. The company is growing and growing, and the problems stay, the issues are every time there. But they change. First you need to find the investors
and then you make the product, the product market fit and then you have to do the sales channels. And I wouldn’t say there was one biggest hurdle, but when you put everything together, it’s a hard way to be honest, it’s a hard way to build something from scratch to an industry reliable product that you have achieved now. I must say, every Founder I see independent of the product application, I have a huge respect. And and I know, ‘Okay, that’s a big deal. Good luck.’

 

So what would be your advice to overcoming these kinds of hurdles?

You have to in my opinion, you have to clear your mind. Of course, you have to educate yourself every time that you’re growing with a company, getting some more skills, but also on your personal level – that means you have to have a clear mind like a fit body because it’s like sports. It’s not easy to do this, and this has a high pressure on everything when you are not able to cope with the challenges. That’s also the fast way to burnout, you can can easily do that, and so that’s very important that you have time in the week where you spend or optimize yourself. That’s very important. And this is something I learned in the first two years it’s you can of course, for me is very easy to work 12 hours each day on the weekend. I can do that, I have enough work to do this, but I think it’s not very sustainable.

I really don’t like the word ‘work life balance’, because for me, and this is totally personal and personal opinion from my side, for me, it’s, I really enjoy what I’m doing. And so it’s also my life in a way. And there is a distinguish between work and life that has some meaning that’s totally, totally different. And as a Founder, it’s a very huge part. And if you don’t like your work part, then you have a bad life.

 

Now, going back to Cellumation briefly. You’ve got a really interesting product on the market at the moment, that is quite dissimilar to anything else in terms of conveyance. Can you talk me through the inspiration behind it.

The inspiration comes as we are working in the research institution in Bremen and that came from our Co-Founder Claudio. He’s the inventor of our team and the application I can remember was, we needed a very flexible conveyor phase in front of a loading robot because we don’t it couldn’t ensure which parcel was coming to the robot.

So we needed a very flexible buffering space, sequencing space, and there was nothing on the market. And one day Claudio looked at YouTube, makes scientific investigations on YouTube, and found some small soccer robots with three wheels on the down side moving in every direction. And the idea was, “Hey, this robot is doing what the parcel should do on the on the conveyor.” So let’s turn the robot upside down and connect it with other robots, and then you can move past us in all directions.

The idea at first sounds crazy, but as very motivated researchers, we thought, “Hey, let’s do it.” And on the weekends or after the normal working hours, we built a small prototype and you’re in you’re and see it now it looks ridiculous but it’s this was enough to convince ourselves that’s the big business idea and then everything started and so yeah so it’s an idea, but the idea is very important. But the implementation then is the real challenge.

 

Now, when it comes to this specific technology, do you think there’s any specific problems in intralogistics that the cellumation solution is best equipped to solve?

Yes, of course we are best when you have higher throughputs of parcels and you have a very small space available. That could be layered forming for depalletizing, layer forming for politicizing, singulation of a byflow of objects up to 10PPH, 10KPPH, they have developed an intelligence switch called cross docking. That means that’s totally independent how many inbounds, how many outbounds you have, it can sort asses in parallel like a traffic cop, it can say which object has to move. And that’s the beauty of our system. In general, to distinguish everything a little bit better, we have a very modular conveyor platform, but it’s not modular in the sense that we have hardware elements for different functions. It happens every time the same. This single hexagon with three cells, but the software changes, so each functionality is a software application. Therefore we can do basically everything of what conveyers can do, of course, just moving straight forward if its a little bit oversize. We can sell it, of course, but up to now nobody has wanted this functionality.

 

Okay, excellent. Now going back to yourself for a moment, Hendrik, what would you say, as a CEO, is your management and leadership ideology? How have you grown your organization since its founding?

I really enjoyed in the time before in the university to have this self responsibility and the kind of freedom to do or to grow your self in a structure which was of course in the university, a little more established in the start up. I tried to give this trust and responsibilities also to our employees who are working with us, who are going this way. I want to build a system where everybody can be a part in cellumation, and also have the opportunity to grow with the company to achieve his or her personal growth goals. It could be totally different. Some would say, ‘I want to be the big boss of this department.’ And some would say, ‘I really like this topic and want to be an expert in that totally independent of the people.’ And I must say this, this kind of leadership has some benefits as when the people are wanting this. And but sometimes it’s also good to give a clear direction and say what to do now. So I have to say that the leadership culture and company culture has changed a lot in these years. The leading three people or 60, totally different.

Totally difference because three people, you can do everything on your own. You can discuss everything. And 60 people you need team mates or other managing directors who are responsible for departments and these people are right, in cellumation we have the benefits that we have good people there. And you can make very good progress in every part. I really under-estimated this value of company culture at the beginning. Of course, you can read books and everybody says that’s very important. But you really see it live and direct in your own company, whether you have a motivated team or none-motivated team, totally different. And from my experience now, it’s a very important part.

 

Now speaking of culture and workforce, the intralogistics industry, I’m sure you would agree, has traditionally lacked a degree of diversity, particularly in leadership roles. Now, in your eyes, as a CEO, what steps can be taken to better support women and people of color to advance and succeed in this field?

Yeah, you’re absolutely right. I think we are getting better, over the years, but there’s definitely also a big potential to do that. At cellumation, we are, of course, very, very open to that, and we have 5 leadership roles that are women, and at our company this is a very important step to have that diversity in the company. And we can put it into three parts: first, the recruitment process – there, it’s independent of the person. Of course, qualification has to be right. We are looking and supporting women or other minorities in our field to engage in cellumation, and also I’m supporting people here in our company who are working here to get the opportunity to make the next step together. And this is why company culture is extremely important. Therefore, you must offer, small things when you think about it, but it makes a huge difference for people, you know, for example, flexible working hours, part time and home office to give the opportunity to the family and then somebody doesn’t need to make this decision between family or career, so that you can give them some opportunities or develop a specific growth plan together. And then, of course, leadership. You have to tell it every time that we are very keen on bringing the intralogistics diversity level to a next step.

 

What would you say has been your biggest achievement in the last year, or what are you most excited about on the horizon?

I’m excited and proud to be part of this scaling story now, now that we have signed big customers and we’re starting a global sales network, rolling out new challenges like before. But that’s that’s very exciting. And then, when our systems are running all over the world, that would be a very, very big step also personally.

In the beginning, there was only a CAD drawing we had and then you see this this small drawing, and now then it’s running and big companies all over the world. And in the last year, the biggest achievement, I think, and there are many, but the biggest was structure change in the company to be prepared for the scaling. And so we have the COO for example, is now taking part of the operational staff, new departments, new staff structures to be able to cope with the scaling.

And also on the shareholder side, we’ve found a very good investor who is supporting us. And the goal to build a sustainable company. We are not this short term start up who wants to be on the short run and then sold for millions of money, of course, millions of euros wouldn’t be a problem later on. We want to build something sustainable and that’s very important to have also on the shareholder side, people with the same mindset on board. And this I would say, was a huge
achievement to have put it together.

 

Is there anyone in the industry or perhaps from university who had the biggest influence or impact on your work?

Starting out, and also now, the company Autostore was very inspiring, because they were the first to admit the system integrator sales model that we are also following. So we looked a lot at this very successful company. On a personal level, at the I have the privilege that I have many mentors, also former CEOs from intralogistics companies, but also from the shareholder side, which I can phone any time I want.

One situation I can remember was very important was in 2016, one year for founding. One of my mentors, a former CEO from a system integrator, visited us to see the first demonstration set up.

And this was just people following the company and it wasn’t in the university. And there, the system runs well, but at the end it was a fail – the system stops and we thought, okay, 95% has worked, 5% okay. And then we went back to the conference room and then we get a very direct and hard lecture. ‘An industry product never fails.’ And this was very, very important that we have made this step. And I’m very thankful that he was so direct and, yeah, life gives you lectures, and you have to listen to them, and it’s working.

 

And finally, what advice would you give to someone looking to move into the industry in 2025?

Be open to the fascinating industry and connect with the people. And I think in the in our industry, everybody knows everybody in a way. And when you want to start, I really like the people because most of them are very hands on. And it’s not so complicated to be connected or to find the right people. And then yeah, I mean, it
depends on what you want to do, of course. But I think in my experience, direct contact with people and sharing ideas, finding partners. I think that’s in our industry very good and when you want to automate something, I think there’s a lot of potential now it’s the right time, so enjoy, and work hard.

 

 

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